Let's talk about flags...

"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
04/23/2019 at 11:00 • Filed to: Track Day

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! Now, I’m not here to defend their actions or justify them in some way. I agree that the guy should have gotten tossed.

When I was autocrossing it was pretty easy to see the flags. People running at you waving their arms, relatively close proximity between flags and cars. In the video shown they flags mostly aren’t moving, they are just being held. I thinking, those would be pretty easy to miss when focusing on your line and the other cars.

The to two truck is hard to miss and passing someone near it is unacceptable.

But how do you increase the visibility of the flags? I’m heading to the track next Monday, this is particularly relevant. When you are on track, your brain is processing about a million things, entry speed, turn in, grip, other riders, marker points, lean, braking.....it goes on. Corner flags seem to get lost for me if they aren’t moving. The video showed more than one flag just being held. Our eyes are geared toward spotting movement.

I’ve always tried to spot a flag halfway up the straight. If something is moving, slow down. This gives me enough time to recognize the course is okay on a relatively relaxing portion of the track, the straight. Get on the straight, check the corner, prep for the corner, brake/ turn in. This breaks down is linked corners when there really isn’t much time to relax on the bike. I’m sliding side to side and trying my best to go quickly and not do something stupid. By the time you actually reach the corner, you should be looking past it/through it.

Does anyone have a tips for track days on processing more information quickly? Am I doing it right? Wrong? Autocrossing it became easier to process information the more I drove. I don’t track enough so it always feels like I’m learning and never getting out of the novice stage.

Thoughts?

For your time.

DISCUSSION (26)

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:02

As a corner worker I always try to ensure maximum visibility /movement of my flags (unless a standing flag, then only visibility ).

UserNotFound > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:04

I thought the same at first, but then I realized that t he flagging stations themselves seemed pretty visible, so checking each station as you go around the lap should be fairly easy to do. You should probably memorize those stations just as much as you have to memorize braking points, etc.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:05

Yeah, I saw his VINwiki video and my first thought was “yeah, okay, bet, show us the onboard.” If you get black flagged and a race official yells at you, you screwed up. Just own it.

tromoly > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:08

Make a RACEceiver in every car mandatory, when (not if) someone misses the flags like the above mentioned driver race control can (a) remind everyone of track conditions and (b) call out said driver in front of everyone for maximum embar rassment.

Future next gen S2000 owner > tromoly
04/23/2019 at 11:11

I think that is fine for amatuer racing but that would effectively kill stand alone track days and first timers. Not to mention, how do you implement that on bikes?

Future next gen S2000 owner > UserNotFound
04/23/2019 at 11:12

I think repetition is the key really. You stop focusing on every input and concentrate on the few critical ones. I just don’t know the critical ones yet.

Future next gen S2000 owner > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
04/23/2019 at 11:14

Agreed but how can we improve the visibility of the flags for the person at their first track day who is overwhelmed by it all?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:15

Why TF aren’t flags remote-controlled strobes?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
04/23/2019 at 11:17

Cost.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
04/23/2019 at 11:19

$$$

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:20

Didn’t he say in his video that he saw the yellow, passed, saw the first black, and the second black? I don’t think it’s an issue. I think it was a dumb teammate or a dumb driver issue.

Future next gen S2000 owner > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
04/23/2019 at 11:24

It was. The point of my post is that I have issues spotting flags on track days because of all the information that needs to be taken in. How can I improve that and how can the flags be improved for those who aren’t running amatuer races and make 1-2 track days a year.

RacingShark > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
04/23/2019 at 11:27

Some tracks have lights to alert drivers about flags. I’ve only seen these at BIG tracks though (I think watkins Gl en has them).

I agree that it seems like it would make a lot of sense, and would help drivers out. The hard part would be finding a good place for them. You’d want them near the track, but not somewhere that a driver could hit.

Even if you miss the flag, you’d probably notice that the other cars are all bunched up, and suddenly easy to pass. At that point you should start to wonder what’s going on.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:28

The best moment to glance at the flag stations is as you’re exiting a corner. By then, the hard work of the corner is done, and you have a “break” as you’re accelerating in a straight line, heading to the next corner. A split second glance at the corner worker is not going to mess you up, and usually you’ll catch any flag out of the corner of your eye, especially yellows & reds . Here is my local track and the corner stations (they’re not usually all manned on the days I go, more like half of them), with arrows showing the points on track when you could easily glance over to see if they have a flag up (most are directly in your line of sight anyway).

Kinja'd!!!

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:33

I’m honestly somewhat surprised that they still use physical flags alone. All drivers have some type of intercom system. If it isn’t already the case, I think all the cars should be equipped with a channel that allows race officials to communicate directly with them and say “yellow, do not pass” or “black flag on 31, get off the track numbnuts”

Future next gen S2000 owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/23/2019 at 11:41

That’s kinda what I do now, but when the corners are linked, I tend to lose them.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:43

If you miss one station, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Just make sure you don’t go by multiple stations without reacting. If it’s really bad, they’ll have the red flags out, waving like crazy.

nermal > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 11:43

I can speak for bikes but not cars . Racing is different than track days in terms of intensity levels, as well as acceptable on track behaviors.

The key to running a good event for either is to have people in charge of the organization that can clearly set safety expectations for participants, but then are total and complete dicks to anybody that doesn’t follow the rules.

For trackdays, this means putting people in the proper groups, and throwing out people that are deemed too dangerous. For racing, the same applies but with a higher amount of tolerated aggression .

Regardless, the guy in the video in question ignored a flag and created a needlessly unsafe situation , and should be DQ’d as a result. If the behavior continues he should not be allowed to drive with that organization .

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 12:17

Experience is the best teacher. If you are overwhelmed trying to process it all, it means you might be rising abobe your head.

A good practice for track days is in your first session / out lap to make sure to note where flagging stations are.

Cash Rewards > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 12:19

If all of a sudden you're catching and passing people that you weren't a lap ago, get your eyes up and look. That was my biggest issue with the video.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/23/2019 at 16:36

Hey look, it’s Hallett!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)
04/23/2019 at 16:47

You saw this, I assume - https://corksport.com/blog/5-tracks-every-mazda-owner-must-hit/

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/23/2019 at 17:36

I’ll probably do a track day down there later in the year. Definitely working their second SCCA event.

I’ll be at Heartland on Thursday for their Track Night in America

SpeedPunk122 > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 20:36

The flags and their stations ARE part of what you should be watching. While your first laps may seem like a crazy, overwhelming exercise, it all settles after a little while. Don’t lose sight of the flags as an important part of the track (like an apex, other drivers, braking points, etc) and you’ll be fine. Whatever you do, don’t be so distracted that you miss them...few of us are fast enough for that excuse.

seoultrain > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/23/2019 at 20:46

1. Flags must be waved. Holding a flag doesn’t make it visible in someone’s peripheral vision.

B. Flashing lights can be used to draw attention to the flag stand.

Thirdly, a radio alert would help.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)
04/24/2019 at 08:50

Nice. I don’t have one scheduled yet, but I hope to get back out there again this season.

Sweet - have fun!